X post from a thread I am posting in

re: spanking= abuse.
I don't think that you can say that parents who spank their kids are abusive. that would be a rather large leap to make.
however, I like parentingcoach who has left the conversation, am also of the opinion that hitting is hitting, no matter how what phrase you couch it in. I am not going to teach my child to not hit by hitting her.
It also really annoys me when those of the religious community (which I happen to be a part of) assume that I am not doing my parental job because I am not hitting my child. The argument from the "rod" verse is rather lacking, IMO, because the literal meaning is talking about a young man who is incredibly rebellious and embarassing his family. not a 3 year old boy. and definitely not a girl in any circumstance.
and to me, I can also not fathom Jesus EVER hitting a child. EVER. The way He dealt with is followers was always kind, but firm and he le them make many discoveries "connecting the dots" as it were, on their own. He never used humiliation. I also don't believe God punishes His people. That means that I will not punish my children for something that has all ready been paid for.
As to the original topic. This is what gets me about spanking. say my dd is refusing to go to bed. I could engage in a power struggle with her, get frustrated and smack her bottom because I am so irritated with her behaviour. (even though I know for a proper, ritualistic like spanking, I am not suppose to be angry) The end game is that my child is going to be in bed. and she is going to stay there.
It makes much more sense to me to be completely consistent with your parenting skills. If you say she has to be in bed, enforce that she is going to be in bed. There is no rational reason to hit your child to make her stay in bed. if you hit her, the end result will be that she stays in bed. if you don't hit her, the end result will be that she stays in bed. so why in the world is it necessary to add a punishment in that is completely unrelated to the problem? and that is what spanking is. There is no way that hitting a child could possibly be related to the actual "crime". if it takes putting your child back into bed physically 1000 times, that is what you must do. no conversation, no yelling, you just do it over and over again until they realise you are totally serious. That is your authority. you ARE in charge because you are the parent. I see no need to spank your child to prove that.
Also, just for fun, if you take out "child" of the ritualistic spanking, you can also find some interesting sites related to s & m (if that doesn't set the word notification off, I am not sure what will). basically its the same thing. that is where ritualistic spanking has its roots, in a Victorian sense of punishment. I find it extremely distasteful to say the least.

Another quick comment on the abusive relationship scenario. A lot of it is a learned behavior. if as a child you had a l ot of ritualistic spanking (the, I am doing this becuase I love you speech, and then they proceed to hit you), its very possible that when you are older you will look for love like that because that is what you were taught. the people that love you also hit you. in fact, my aunt has made this "joke" about how she was very concerned as child when she wasn't getting spanked because of the preceeding "I love you speech." by her parents. she did end up in an emotionally abusive relationship because that is what she expected. Often if we took out "child" and replaced it with "adult" in a spanking scenario, we would be suitably horrified. and yet, because they are children, we do not blink. at what point do children become worthy of being called human and the rights that go along with that? If we are "to do under others as we want done unto us", I know I certainly don't want to be spanked by someone just because they are physically stronger and in a higher position of authority than me.

As for the comment about society going to shambles because apparently we don't spank our kids enough anymore. I am of the opinion that what we really need is a parent oriented attachment, not a peer oriented, which has become the norm. In fact, a great book I am reading about that right now is "Hold Onto your Kids"